Sci-Mx broke rule 12

System Info:Dedades raised the P flag at=262.  


pen: protestee
spin: none

That was your pen as you didnt avoid me while I was on starboard (rule 10/13). Also, I had room at the bouy so that second pen should have been yours too (rule 18.2).
Sci-Mx

sorry but is not rule 10 because I was on starboard, and not rule 13 because is just when you are tacking...
tell me witch rule I broke and i will ask for RAF!
Thanks
Sail Fast

you broke also rule 14

Sci Mx breaks rule 12 in the first incident and Dedades breaks rule 12 in the second incident IMO.
Kae

In first incident Dedades may have completed a gybe before contact, but did not give Sci-Mx room to avoid.

C'mon, gybing in front of a starboard boat? Not great form on the water is it? Especially in cats.

Rule 15 is broken? The words 'initially' in this case start when the gybe is completed and with the kite up, I see very little room for Sci-Mx to react with, let alone respond in a seaman like manner. On the water, such a maneuver would likely result in flying the hull at the very least.

Dedades, it was a good effort, but T those when they don't work out as planned.
Even if Sci-Mx sheeted out as soon as the gybe was completed, contact looks inevitable.

Kaenon, what exactly would you have done in Sci's shoes? Or in this case, hulls...?

comn_up wrote:
.In first incident Dedades may have completed a gybe before contact, but did not give Sci-Mx room to avoid.

C'mon, gybing in front of a starboard boat? Not great form on the water is it? Especially in cats.
"Not great form" does not necessarily break a rule. If Dedades completes his gybe (see below) then he acquires ROW. Sci-Mx must then act promptly to keep clear.

Rule 15 is broken? The words 'initially' in this case start when the gybe is completed and with the kite up,
Totally incorrect - a boat has gybed when the sail/s have passed the centerline of the boat and the wind has filled the sails on the new tack. On sailx a boat has gybed when the boat has passed Dead Downwind and the boom has changed sides. So in this incident Dedades has gybed and acquired ROW at t=245.2.

I see very little room for Sci-Mx to react with, let alone respond in a seaman like manner. On the water, such a maneuver would likely result in flying the hull at the very least.

Dedades, it was a good effort, but T those when they don't work out as planned.
Even if Sci-Mx sheeted out as soon as the gybe was completed, contact looks inevitable.

Kaenon, what exactly would you have done in Sci's shoes? Or in this case, hulls...?

Hi comn-up

Regarding the 1st contact.

Having read the above comments, then apply the rules as written, and use them to judge this incident from the moment Dedades acquires ROW. Did Dedades give Room for Sci-Mx act promptly? Did Sci-Mx act promptly?

Dedades acquires ROW at t=245.2
Contact occurs at t=248.0 some 2.8 seconds later.
Sci-Mx has not changed course, or sheeted out, or acted in any way to keep clear.

Apply the RRS and you will come to the correct ruling for this 1st incident.

Aloha!

Comn up, If i was in his shoes, I would sheet out and double enter! i do that a lot in positions like this where a person is going slow infront of me and i am going to hit them. That would have DEFINATElY avoided. He probably could have avoided another way but mine is a sure way
Kae

Hi,
The point at which can't be as soon as you pass dead downwind as it is the position that you would take for your proper course as I had rights going into the situation. As for the second penalty, that was definately not my penalty in any way as I had room (R18.2) and then got hit from behind, which is not my penalty and should have been avoided seamanly while I judged whether I had infringed, therefore not my penalty (and not what would happen on the race course).
Sci-Mx

hi!
What can I do now?
Could i lost 300 points for the second crash?
Is better ask for a RAF?

Thank you...

Okole so for you sci-Mx broke rule 12 in the first crash?

i think that he broke rule 44.2 for the second crash... because: after getting well clear of the other boats AS SOON after the incident AS POSSIBLE......

ok I ask the RAF for the second incident.
So if I understand it, in the first incident I am right to rule 12, while he is right after the same rule ... but 44.2 does not apply??, I would like someone to answer

Sailor Dedades requested RAF. Protest closed.

There are 2 incidents here:

Incident #1:
Facts:
Dedades gybes and acquires ROW.
Sci-Mx does not act promptly so does not take the Room that Rule 15 offers him.
Contact occurs and Sci-Mx breaks R12.
Sci-Mx does spin to exonerate if a little delayed.

Decision:
Sci-Mx breaks R12 spins to exonerate - protest dismissed.



Incident #2:
Dedades owes Sci-Mx Mark-Room as per R18.2.b.

Decision:
Dedades breaks R18.2.b requests an RAF

Aloha!

Sci-Mx wrote:
.Hi,
The point at which can't be as soon as you pass dead downwind as it is the position that you would take for your proper course as I had rights going into the situation.
A boat is 'on a tack' as soon as the wind fills her sails on that new tack. You are talking about a Proper Course. They are different things.

Aloha!

thank you very much okole!

Sci-mix, sorry for rule 18.2!

Sail Fast

No worries. Sorry for the first incident. Good discussion as it was a tough one!
Thanks,
Sci-Mx

Kaenon23 wrote:
.Comn up, If i was in his shoes, I would sheet out and double enter! i do that a lot in positions like this where a person is going slow infront of me and i am going to hit them. That would have DEFINATElY avoided. He probably could have avoided another way but mine is a sure way
Kae

Very fair answer!