Rarebreed clearly has an overlap as the first boat reaches the zone.




System Info:rarebreed was given a pen at t=236 (RE:Rule 16.1 - Changing course, room).    rarebreed raised the P flag at=242.  rarebreed span at t=258.    


pen: protester
spin: protester

I disagree.

Have you seen the video replay? How can you disagree?

Have you? Because I break overlap... very clearly... and when I reach the mark zone am clear ahead of you.

Amazing SR!

It's true, you broke the overlap just enough to enter the zone first.
How can you do this in less than one second!!!
How could you be sure you did in the speed of the moment?

I suppose is your expertise in this game.

Yes Amazing, seeing as my replay shows this image:

Perhaps we can't trust the pictures we find here?
Or perhaps we can't rely on the video when lag might affect the image.

I think if you watch the replay in real time rather than relying on snapshots there is a reasonable doubt about whether or not an overlap was broken. And as for the snapshots I have replayed and paused the video a number of times and have never seen the image Notainslie has posted not sure how that can be or what gremlins might be at work.

Rule 18.2 d) If there is reasonable doubt that a boat obtained or broke an
overlap in time, it shall be presumed that she did not.

Interesting.
I cannot reproduce Rarebreed's image. Mine was taken from the "Race Replay", and I can reproduce it.
HOWEVER I can say that having watched the replay again Rarebreed jumps forward just after my image is taken. Quite substantially.
I also think my image is probably the rogue one - taken at a time between jumps, when Rarebreed's apparent position is the false one. I am not certain of that - but that is how it appears having reviewed it again.

NotA.

Correction. I can reproduce Rarebreed's image.
Crikey.

The RE very clearly recognizes 3 things:

1) yellow highlight while we are overlapped
2) no highlight after i break overlap
3) S_R is not penned for R18 at contact

Preliminary period ends, no aggreement. Protest enters the Protest Room standard procedure.

I'm happy to go with what RE said if it is working off real time events. But if it is subject to the same lag and jumps as replay then I am not sure we can rely on it either.

Either way I suppose we can see why there was a disagreement over the initial findings.

Thanks for your efforts notainslie.

On viewing the replay at normal speed for the 1st time, SR and rarebreed are overlapped right up until the 1st boat enters the zone. Judging by the discussion above and the replay, there is doubt that the existing overlap was broken in time or not. So therefore Rule 18.2.d should apply and say we should presume it was not broken in time. SR owed rarebreed Mark-Room.

Facts:
rarebreed has a clear inside overlap on SR leading up to the 1st boat entering the zone.
There is doubt whether that existing overlap was broken in time so R18.2.d applies and says we must presume it was not broken in time and SR owes Mark-Room to rarebreed as per R18.2.b.

R18.2 is designed to help make safer mark roundings with less collisions for boats, so applying R18.2.d here makes sense because it means the existing overlap is honored if there is doubt about it being broken in time. This would mean SR should give rarebreed Mark-Room and therefore no collision would have happened. This is a classic case for the application of R18.2.d and a good example of the RRS at work helping to prevent collisions.

Decision:
Sailing_Rugger breaks 18.2.b does not exonerate so gets a DSQ

Aloha!

Where does he have clear overlap?

Okole wrote:
SR and rarebreed are overlapped right up until the 1st boat enters the zone.

Facts:
rarebreed has a clear inside overlap on SR leading up to the 1st boat entering the zone.
There is doubt whether that existing overlap was broken in time so R18.2.d applies and says we must presume it was not broken in time and SR owes Mark-Room to rarebreed as per R18.2.b.

There is doubt it was broken in time.

Aloha!

Watching in real time, the replay shows overlap (highlight) being broken near 2 full seconds before I reach the mark zone... there is then doubt whether rarebreed re-established it...

Shouldn't 18.2d then in turn work in my favor here??

Hi SR,

We know the replay shows jumping boats.
We know that there is doubt about the overlap at the last moment.
I see a clear overlap leading up to the time boats are just about to enter the zone.
That is the last known certainty.

R18.2.d is about the last known certainty.
Here the last known certainty was that rarebreed was overlapped inside of you.
In the very short time that you cite, there is no clear overlap, there is doubt, there is no known certainty.
So R18.2.d cannot be applied to you in that way.
Our last known certainty is that boats were overlapped.

Aloha!