I enter zone ahead and while still at the mark, I gybe onto port. Hard and Fast approaches from behind and at speed, and goes inside me. My speed of manouvre was limited because I was in major wind shadow, but with the angle I approached the mark, and the windshadow, I don't that I could have got much closer to the mark.
hard N Fast says 'you cant gybe there' and later that 'R18 was off'
I contend that I was still at the mark and so R18 was still on.
k11 was given a pen at t=142 (RE:Rule 10 - Port-Starboard).    k11 raised the P flag at=146.  

the speed of your manouvre was fast, because you hit enter twice...i agree that i do owe you mark room, but at T 142.2 when contact occurs, i believe you have taken your mark room and rounded the mark, therefore yes, i think rule 18 is off. if this was real life and u turn wide on the mark allowing me inside (taking away ur lane to gybe) and proceed to gybe, there WILL be a collision, and i dont know of many people that would throw the helm over at that point.

1/2 a boat length away from the mark is "wide"?
Is not k11 still 'at' the mark while gybing?
Is not k11 sailing his PC while "rounding" when contact occurs?

As I approach the mark, I'm doing so at very slow speed due to wind shadows. I want to gybe at the mark. However, I'm at max setting for kite, and so must first bear away before I can initiate auto gybe (that is all part of my gybe). I start my turn to gybe at the first reasonable opportunity - I am directly upwind of the mark and abreast of it. At the point I start to bear away, my kite 'auto sheets out' and only misses the mark by a very small amount - I think that proves I couldnt have turned earlier and so didn't sail past the mark before starting to turn (ie I couldnt have gybed any sooner or tighter).
At 141.5 just before I gybe, my kite is still quite close to the mark, and there is certainly no room for another boat.
When I complete my gybe, I'm still abreast of the mark, and at the point of the collision, I'm still only 2/3rds of my hull down from it


You don't know many people who'd throw the helm over - and I dont know of many that would aim for a gap that could easily be closed and is very likely to be so.

My only concern is whether my use of a fast gybe was legitimate or not.

K11 - What is your PC at this mark?

In the absence of other boats, I normally gybe set or gybe so that I'm on starboard later on and can more easily choose my gate. In this case there was also more wind on the port side (looking downwind) so I wanted to get over to that. So my PC was to gybe.

All the other boats are factors in deciding what your PC might be, all except the one refered to in the rule H&F. We ignore him in deciding what k11's PC might be.

Thanks k11, So we have established that your PC is to gybe at this mark and sail as fast as possible to the right side of the course avoiding all other boat's (excpet H&F's) wind shadows.


So is there a rule that can exonerate k11 for breaking Rule 10 as he does here?

Okole wrote:
.All the other boats are factors in deciding what your PC might be, all except the one refered to in the rule H&F. We ignore him in deciding what k11's PC might be.

Thanks k11, So we have established that your PC is to gybe at this mark and sail as fast as possible to the right side of the course avoiding all other boat's (excpet H&F's) wind shadows.


So is there a rule that can exonerate k11 for breaking Rule 10 as he does here?

Can I have a stab at this please:

Because K11 is still protected by Rule 18, could Rule 18.5 exonerate K11?

That sounds right to me Suzy.

Okole - If you watch the replay for another 20-30 secs you will see that there was another incident. At the time, I was looking down, typing a tirade about my rights vs those of H&F and tbh didnt see it. I just assumed that Hard and Fast had borne down onto me and so ignored her claims it was mine and so when my original typing didnt appear (maybe ued a banned word?) I typed instead 'and another one' (meaning another breach by H&F).
In fact now I've looked at it I was clearly in the wrong and so, if it's not too late, I'd like to retire from that race. (H&F didnt protest the second incident and neither did I).

Just to be clear - I want to retire for the second (unprotested) incident - not this one, which I think should go to a decision (unless H&F RAFs).

Thanks for the gentlemanly offer k11. But the second incident was not protested for on the water and no protest has been submitted to the room. And according to the RRS this hearing is only dealing with the original protested rule breach.

According to R60.2.a, the PC may choose to protest k11 only based on information provided on the protest form, which here on sailx includes the racelet. I see no 2nd incident on the racelet so the PC cannot protest k11 for any unseen 2nd incident.

Back to this incident.

Aloha!

Suzy wrote:
.Okole wrote:
.All the other boats are factors in deciding what your PC might be, all except the one refered to in the rule H&F. We ignore him in deciding what k11's PC might be.

Thanks k11, So we have established that your PC is to gybe at this mark and sail as fast as possible to the right side of the course avoiding all other boat's (excpet H&F's) wind shadows.


So is there a rule that can exonerate k11 for breaking Rule 10 as he does here?

Can I have a stab at this please:

Because K11 is still protected by Rule 18, could Rule 18.5 exonerate K11?

18.5 Exoneration
When a boat is taking Mark-Room to which she is entitled, she shall
be exonerated
(a) if, as a result of the other boat failing to give her Mark-Room,
she breaks a rule of Section A, or
(b) if, by rounding the mark on her Proper Course, she breaks a
rule of Section A or rule 15 or 16.

Hi Suzy,

Yes, R18.5.b says that if another boat is not giving k11 Mark-Room and k11 is sailing his PC while 'rounding' the mark, then k11 can be exonerated for a breach of any rule or Section A (rules: 10, 11, 12 and 13) and rules 15 and 16.

So here k11 breaks R10.
He is on his PC while rounding the mark.
R18.5.b exonerates him for his breach of R10.

H&F does not give Mark-Room so breaks Rule 18.2.b.

Aloha!

Thanks for all the input, and after looking at the replay many more times, i would agreed that K11 had not fully rounded mark before the gybe. Had this incident occur a few seconds later and down course, then i could have a case. None the less, it was a tight gap to sqweeze in, and i was not anticipating her prompt gybe which i should have know was still an option for her at that point. Another good learning experience for me here, and i apologize K11 and hope no hard feelings. Again thanks for the input, and ill RAF

Sailor Hard_and_Fast requested RAF. Protest closed.