There has been a collision between k11 and Luksen.

I am sailing my proper course to the line and they have just received penalties. There is collision between my and Luksen.

He takes a spin, but I don\'t know if that was for me or for his penalty. But he only took one out of a possible two.

Just want to make sure that this is verified. I couldn find k11 on the system in time to protest, so I guess it is invalid?

Kind regards,

Whiskey.

System Info:Whiskey raised the P flag at=13.  


pen: protester
spin: none

There still has not been a protest made by Luksen of k11.

If this is the case then there is a R2 protest, due to neither of them taking a penalty for an incident.

Whiskey.

hello whiskey ,

please have an close look to the racelet !
maybe u should wear glasses ...
so if u have a close look at the replay you would see that there was no collison with you and me! at any time !
there was only a collision with k11 and me, i was penned but he t that, i dont know why i was penned a second time but for that i did my 360° !

best regards luksen

please zoom in then you could see it better !

and see the racelet again and press f4 (the chat)
IF we had an collision the chat would show you (rule> collison rule .. (...))
but there is non !

Hi Luksen,

I think the reason there was no penalty for it was because you had just received a penalty. For example there is very clear contact between Whiskey and k11, but there was no penalty given. It would be good to see some input from other sailors.

Sorry to bring it up as I know your a fair sailor, but it happens so much, it would be good for me to understand what to do in these circumstances.

Kind regards,

Whiskey.

Yes input from other sailors would be great !

I'd say that there were at least 3 touches between Luksen and Whiskey, Im sure i read somewhere that once you get a penalty there is a 3(or sometime)second barrier that stops you from getting silly amount of penalties.

As for what to do in those situations I dont have a scooby. In real life your boat probably wouldnt of survived T-boning K11 and race would be over from there, in sailx as soon as k11 was clear of bow i would have born away (as it was clear that Luksen had been stopped by collision and had diminished maneuverability). And therefore been clear.

Just my thoughts im not sure where it would have come rules wise.mprobably standard rule 11 breach.

A

Keep Clear - One boat keeps clear of another if the other can sail her course
with no need to take avoiding action and, when the boats are overlapped on
the same tack, if the leeward boat can change course in both directions
without immediately making contact with the windward boat.

There does not need to be a contact for a keep clear boat to break a rule by not keeping clear.

In this incident Luksen is windward keep clear boat as per Rule 11. He gets so close to Whiskey that he is not keeping clear by definition (see underlined part).

Luksen breaks R11 without any contact because he did not keep clear.

Aloha!

Okole wrote:
.Keep Clear - One boat keeps clear of another if the other can sail her course
with no need to take avoiding action and, when the boats are overlapped on
the same tack, if the leeward boat can change course in both directions
without immediately making contact with the windward boat.


Then i think nearly everybody could be protested while starting ! there is (nearly) always a windward boat to you, so you could protest him just because he did not keep clear to you, because you cant change your course to windward side !

And with the barrier when u got an penalty... i had my pen on t:-11 or probably earlier (the racelet does not show the whole situation)and when whiskey and me had this supposed "collision" ( i just dont believe that, that shows also the chat !)it was t:2. so that means that there should be a barrier of more then 13 seconds ??? i just cant believe that!

Luksen you missed the most important word in the definition of kep clear - immediately.

If the contact would occur immediately when the ROW boat changes course the keep clear boat is not keeping clear. You were so close to Whiskey that if he had changed course in either direction contact would have occurred immediately.

In the screen shot providied by Whiskey above you are so close at that moment (not before or much after) that if he had changed course in either direction contact would have occurred immediately.

At that moment you break R11 without contact occurring.

Aloha!

Hey all,

I feel bad that only Luksen is being protested as k11 was worse than he was. Unfortunately I could not find his name when i protested and by the then I needed to concentrate on race.

But it is a clear R11 my friend.

Whiskey.

okole said :
[...] if [...]

I think thats the point ! IF there were a contact ..... IF he had change course....

But there was NO collision I didnt touch him, he DID NOT have to
dodge !

SO i dont see the reason for that protest! I bet i will find more then 10 of these cases !

Preliminary period ends, no aggreement. Protest enters the Protest Room standard procedure.

Luksen

Because you were so close to Whiskey, you broke R11 without any need for any contact.
You were not keeping clear by definition and broke R11 without contact occurring.
There was no need for a collision for you to break R11 because you were not keeping clear as defined in the RRS definition of keep clear.
You were not keeping clear according to the RRS definition of keep clear so break R11.

Please read and try and understand the RRS definition of keep clear.


--------------------------------------------------


According to R60.3(a)(2) a protest committee may protest a boat that is involved in an incident and may have broken a rule. k11 breaks R11.

k11 breaks R11 does not spin so gets a DSQ and -300 points.
Luksen breaks R11 does not spin so gets a DSQ and -300 points.

Aloha!

Hey Okole,

thank you for the verification of rules there. Will be a good one to be aware of in future incidents.

Thank you to everyone for the responces.

Kind regards,

Whiskey.