nwverge vs. BigSulk (R15) E1-euro_1340919028_Dublin2012_3V_Jun28 [4] Pushed out of the way
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TOPIC: nwverge vs. BigSulk (R15) E1-euro_1340919028_Dublin2012_3V_Jun28 [4] Pushed out of the way
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nwverge vs. BigSulk (R15) E1-euro_1340919028_Dublin2012_3V_Jun28 [4] Pushed out of the way 2012/06/28 23:06 (10 Months, 3 Weeks ago)
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BigSulk comes in from astern of nwverge and attempts to get in between nwverge and Play_Up_Pompey where there is clearly no room for her.
System Info:nwverge was given a pen at t=-5 (RE:Rule 11 - Overlapped, windward boat). nwverge raised the P flag at=-3.
pen: protester spin: protester
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Re:nwverge vs. BigSulk (R15) E1-euro_1340919028_Dublin2012_3V_Jun28 [4] Pushed out of the way 2012/06/29 00:19 (10 Months, 3 Weeks ago)
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Hmm there is no justice in this world. At the start of this sequence Nwverge aggressively shuts the door on BS. BS only needed to hold her course and speed and undoubtedly Nwverge would have gone but out of consideration BS sheeted out and let Nwverge off her illegal blocking (infringement of RRS 11). The overlap was broken so I know that period is history and no longer relevant BUT!!
At @ T -8.0 BS re-establishes overlap and ROW and Nwverge is required to give her room which includes room for BS to sail to windward of PUP who is an obstruction to BS.
BS luffs to @T -6.6 having initially given Nwverge room. At his point Nwverge should have luffed and stayed moving to keep clear. Instead she holds her course and sheets out. As soon as she sheets out BS can no longer turn up without hitting Nwverge's boom and after this point there will be increasingly less room for Nwverge to luff as obliged. At the point Nwverge sheets out she breaks RRS 11. Neither BS nor Nwverge make any further course change and a collision results at T -4.8
BS is not required to hail for water on PUP.
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Last Edit: 2012/06/29 00:21 By BigSulk.
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Standard Procedure (nwverge vs. BigSulk) 2012/07/01 00:05 (10 Months, 3 Weeks ago)
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Preliminary period ends, no aggreement. Protest enters the Protest Room standard procedure.
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Protest_System
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Re: Standard Procedure (nwverge vs. BigSulk) 2012/07/01 08:18 (10 Months, 3 Weeks ago)
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Keep Clear - One boat keeps clear of another
if the other can sail her course with no need to take avoiding action and,
when the boats are overlapped on the same tack, if the leeward boat can
change course in both directions without immediately making contact
with the windward boat.
Facts:
nwverge is the windward overlapped Keep Clear boat.
t=-12.8 nwverge breaks R11 because he prevents BigSulk from sailing his course forcing BS to sheet out to avoid a collision. So nwverge is not "Keeping Clear" as defined by the RRS.
t=-7.7 BS obtains a leeward overlap and ROW as per R11.
t=-6.5 nwverge sheets out when he should be staying sheeted in and luffing to keep clear.
t=-3.9 BS luffs and is ROW boat changing course and does not give nwverge Room to keep clear and breaks R16.1. We can see his "significant course change" pink dot buffer so this course change is made by keyboard input not a bump by contact.
nwverge has Room to keep clear but does not take it.
BS luffs not giving Room breaking R16.1.
nwverge gets clear as soon as he can considering all the boats around him so complies with R44.2.
nwverge does not restart correctly so breaks R30 and R28.
Decision:
nwverge breaks R11 twice and gets clear and exonerates in compliance with R44.2 but breaks R30 and R28 so gets a DSQ
BigSulk breaks R16.1 and does not exonerate so gets a DSQ
Aloha!
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Okole
Moderator
Posts: 29722
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Last Edit: 2012/07/01 08:21 By Okole.
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One has not won, if, in the process of winning, one has lost the respect of ones competitors. - Paul Elvstrom.
This post was prepared solely as a service to the Sailx community. Neither Sailx nor any of its volunteers, agents or assigns makes any warranty, expressed or implied, or assumes any legal liability or responsibility for the accuracy, completeness, or usefulness of any information herein disclosed, or represents that its use would be of any benefit whatsoever to anybody. Reference herein to any specific past or present posts, protests, precedents or any comments whatsoever does not necessarily constitute or imply its endorsement, recommendation, or favouring by Sailx, its moderators or users. The opinions of the author expressed herein do not necessarily state or reflect those of Sailx and shall not be used against the author in any way, means, manner or form, for any purpose whatsoever. © 2009 DogWatch/Okole
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Re: Standard Procedure (nwverge vs. BigSulk) 2012/07/01 16:50 (10 Months, 3 Weeks ago)
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How did I break R28 or R30?
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Re: Standard Procedure (nwverge vs. BigSulk) 2012/07/01 17:05 (10 Months, 3 Weeks ago)
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R30.1- "she shall thereafter sail from the course side across an extension to the prestart side before starting."
This is accomplished when nwverge sails to the OCS from the pre-start side, then turns and leaves the OCS and returns to the pre-start side before starting.
Not sure how R28 applies.
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Re:nwverge vs. BigSulk (R15) E1-euro_1340919028_Dublin2012_3V_Jun28 [4] Pushed out of the way 2012/07/01 21:24 (10 Months, 3 Weeks ago)
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I see so Nwverge consistently fails to keep clear but I should hit leeward boat rather than luff
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Last Edit: 2012/07/02 09:11 By BigSulk.Reason: original post typed on iphone full of typing errors
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Re: Standard Procedure (nwverge vs. BigSulk) 2012/07/01 21:28 (10 Months, 3 Weeks ago)
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nwverge wrote:
.R30.1- "she shall thereafter sail from the course side across an extension to the prestart side before starting."
This is accomplished when nwverge sails to the OCS from the pre-start side, then turns and leaves the OCS and returns to the pre-start side before starting.
Not sure how R28 applies.
Did you pass between the start marks to start correctly? No, so when you pull your string tight it does not pass between the start marks, you have not sailed the correct course, so you break R28.
Aloha!
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Okole
Moderator
Posts: 29722
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LINKS: Click to download:
ISAF Racing Rules of Sailing 2013-2016
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The RYAs PRINCIPLES OF SPORTSMANSHIP & FAIR PLAY
Play By The Rules - The RRS in many different languages.
Sailx Quick Reference Guide
One has not won, if, in the process of winning, one has lost the respect of ones competitors. - Paul Elvstrom.
This post was prepared solely as a service to the Sailx community. Neither Sailx nor any of its volunteers, agents or assigns makes any warranty, expressed or implied, or assumes any legal liability or responsibility for the accuracy, completeness, or usefulness of any information herein disclosed, or represents that its use would be of any benefit whatsoever to anybody. Reference herein to any specific past or present posts, protests, precedents or any comments whatsoever does not necessarily constitute or imply its endorsement, recommendation, or favouring by Sailx, its moderators or users. The opinions of the author expressed herein do not necessarily state or reflect those of Sailx and shall not be used against the author in any way, means, manner or form, for any purpose whatsoever. © 2009 DogWatch/Okole
Dont worry - Be a happy Okole!
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Re: Standard Procedure (nwverge vs. BigSulk) 2012/07/03 08:51 (10 Months, 2 Weeks ago)
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Okole - please re-examine the racelet before final judgement. I agree with your timing but would point out that at T -3.9 I did luff with one arrow up - the minimum I could. I had given all the time in the world for nwverge to get clear prior to T- 3.9. At T -3.9 I needed to change course or I would have hit the leeward boat. Finally on close examination of both the racelet and the full replay I do not think there is another collision between BS and nwverge. (Clearly the buffer would have stopped any being registered which there were not but I think clear water was maintained.
Foe all these reasons I do not think that I should receive a DSQ.
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Re: Standard Procedure (nwverge vs. BigSulk) 2012/07/03 09:25 (10 Months, 2 Weeks ago)
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BS
The RE calls your "Significant course change".
You clearly break R16.1.
Even if you have to luff to avoid the Leeward ROW boat YOU must take that into account and give the windward boat Room to keep clear of your luff.
That's why in the real world I hope you would not push in where you have no Room to push in, like you do here.
Aloha!
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Okole
Moderator
Posts: 29722
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Last Edit: 2012/07/03 09:32 By Okole.
LINKS: Click to download:
ISAF Racing Rules of Sailing 2013-2016
Sailx Sailing Instructions
ISAF 2013-2016 Case Book
ISAF 2013-2016 Team Race Call Book
ISAF 2013-2016 Match Race Call Book
ISAF 2013 Q&A service Booklet
The US Sailing Appeals Book for 2009-2012.
The RYAs PRINCIPLES OF SPORTSMANSHIP & FAIR PLAY
Play By The Rules - The RRS in many different languages.
Sailx Quick Reference Guide
One has not won, if, in the process of winning, one has lost the respect of ones competitors. - Paul Elvstrom.
This post was prepared solely as a service to the Sailx community. Neither Sailx nor any of its volunteers, agents or assigns makes any warranty, expressed or implied, or assumes any legal liability or responsibility for the accuracy, completeness, or usefulness of any information herein disclosed, or represents that its use would be of any benefit whatsoever to anybody. Reference herein to any specific past or present posts, protests, precedents or any comments whatsoever does not necessarily constitute or imply its endorsement, recommendation, or favouring by Sailx, its moderators or users. The opinions of the author expressed herein do not necessarily state or reflect those of Sailx and shall not be used against the author in any way, means, manner or form, for any purpose whatsoever. © 2009 DogWatch/Okole
Dont worry - Be a happy Okole!
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